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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
319
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Posted - 2015.08.20 14:43:33 -
[1] - Quote
I've run Incursions. They're dreadfully boring, even compared to ratting in null. Some might liek that kind of thing though. Blitzing so far is the only thing that's been on par(as in not boring) with what I used to do for isk; mix of full clear missioning with marauder and exploration. Makes a bit more, more reliably though but it's hard to keep it up for longer than 3h or so. Best for me with regards to engagement and income was C5 wormholes before Hyperion. |

Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
323
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Posted - 2015.08.24 09:32:20 -
[2] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Gimme Sake wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:
But yea, color me surprised that you don't know a thing about the thing you decided to post about lol.
I decided to post in the context of many a thread asking for all sorts of income nerfing. The game is already a grind festival if you don't run a few clients simultaneously and have specialized alts for different sorts of activities. It's only a grind festival if you don't know how to play. Hell, the game olets you play it for free if you can earn 33 million isk per day, and you can do that in like 4 to 15 minutes, less if you know what you are doing. It's really no one's fault but the 'grinder' that they don't discover how to do things better. I suggest spending more time learning about things before posting and you'll understand. Nonsense. The only activities that even approach 120M/hr require significant investment in ships and additional accounts. Even station trading requires a large principal to reach those numbers, and station trading is an activity many people neither excel at nor enjoy. Scamming isn't something many people go in for either. I can make well over 120mill/h, solo and near indefinitely in either HS or null. in fact if you have contacts you don't even have to ship the LP store stuff to the market, they will come pick it up where you run your missions. This isn't a theoretical isk/h either. This is something I measured by entering my starting isk & time and then entering my end isk and time and doing a very simple little isk/h calculation. No booster alts or even mission pulling alts, just little old me.
However I don't think that is in any way wrong. I currently enjoy doing this and once I no longer find any enjoyment in it I move on and do something else, maybe Null PvP again. It's as valid a gamestyle and if you disagree you are free to come make me not play that way as is the way of eve. Me making and having isk equates to content for at least someone, be it the Belt ratter in null, the exploration toon getting me dedspace mods, the low/nullsec mission runner getting me pirate ships or the renter farming T2 moongoo for modules I use and even the wormhole guy making me the T3 stuff I want. I can't pay for any of that without isk and I cant transport any of that without the risk of getting ganked.
There is a lot of butthurt in this thread about people not liking the way other people play and it is quite amusing to read. |

Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
323
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Posted - 2015.08.24 11:19:20 -
[3] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:
There is a lot of butthurt in this thread about people not liking the way other people play and it is quite amusing to read.
True, as its a long thread with all kinds of posts in it. I think suggesting a review of HS incursions, in terms of risk/reward, is reasonable though, for a number of valid reasons. Not to kill or hurt anyones playstyle, but to rationalise HS incursions compared to other activities (particularly in HS with its safer ruleset and considering the special mechanics incursions apply to a system). Most people, when looking at HS incursions, only look at one side of the coin or one half of the equations or (insert one half analogy here). Can you get high isk/h? Yup. Is it safe? Relatively. Is it infinite? Ah, yes and no. It's infinate as long as the incursion is up, then thers a lot of moving and running sites and reduced income but that not the problem. THe problem is there are only so many sites and so many systems. An incursion can get SATURATED. Now once it is, you know what starts happening? Content. You have races in sites, you have drama, you have rage killing the mom, ganking opposing fleets ships, awoxing. End of the day that's what the game is about yes? |

Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
323
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Posted - 2015.08.24 11:43:04 -
[4] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:, ganking opposing fleets ships, awoxing. End of the day that's what the game is about yes? Those dont happen cuz of the Logi. Nice try. Thats more than half what people are cryimg/complaining about here dude. The fact it is harder to awox 1 man FF illegal Incursion wardec imune corps And lol ganking. You need to alpha them which good luck doing that to a maurader or bling BS without bringing 15 gank ships yourself. Youd be better to just use those 15 tornados on 15 separate haulers and get more kills and more loot. They need to be easier to kill all around if they make the most isk of all of eve while having the least risk. High isk=high risk=high chance of death. Ships get ganked plenty enough moving from one incursion to the next. Awoxing is a bit more difficult to pull off (bit of a longer term goal as you have to become a trusted FC) but probably a lot more satisfying knowing you caused a good 50 to 100bill or even more worth of ship and module losses. The FC after all decides who gets into the fleet so can decide how much bling to awox.
But again, all I see in your post is a whole lot of boohoo they're making isk, I don't want them making isk. Well... make them.
Also you can make more running lv4+burners than incursions and it's a bit harder to saturate those :P |

Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
327
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Posted - 2015.08.25 15:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:[quote=Demerius Xenocratus] And of course this isn't true. It hasn't been true for a very very long time. And CCP keep making stuff that makes easy isk making using cheapish ships possible. Burner mission blitzing is a prime example. A tech2 incursion Scimitar trained to logi 4 doesn't take that long, doesn't cost that much and will get you in a blingy incursion fleet making more than 120 mil an hour once the fleet gets rolling The above poster is an excellent example of what I always talk about. He can't figure out how to do it, so no one must be able to do it, and that leads to woefully incorrect assumptions about everything. That's the incredible thing about EVE, it's so diverse, people can not only be bad at PVP, in EVE you can totally suck at PVE too lol. And even if he was right (he is not, you should see his missions and complexes posts), 120 mil is per hour means that you can spend one hour a day playing EVE doing pve with 1 ship and plex 4 accounts per month or plex 1 account and have the equivilant of 3 plexes worth of isk in your wallet to blow on other things. or spend 30 minutes per day PVEing, use have your isk for a plex and the other half for ships to explode 1 900 mil+ is enough for a good month of frig/cruiser and some battlecruiser whelping. Burners require a collection of blinged out faction frigs or the use of alts to run consistently without loss. I agree they are the most hideously broken form of highsec PvE, far worse than incursions. I am in the only FW faction which can't farm missions with bombers so I forget that option exists. Hopefully it will be balanced soon. Wait, since when is all T2 fit AFs and HACs 'blinged' 
Don't use a boosting alt myself anymore either. |

Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
327
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Posted - 2015.08.25 22:25:09 -
[6] - Quote
Interesting fact, blitzing thucker or SOE lv4 missions, while generating close to 140mill isk+ in WEALTH per hour generates almost NO actual isk. My wallet has been stying in the same 100 mill bracket for the last week while my wealth has increased by a couple billion because buying LP items takes all the isk I make from bounties, payouts and burners.
Nullsec, especially drone lands, inject pure isk (100mill/h +-) directly into people's wallets. This is then used to buy all the LP items the blitzers, incursion, FW runners, etc. put on the market. |

Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
328
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Posted - 2015.08.26 08:26:15 -
[7] - Quote
Ganker tears? Man this thread delivers. |

Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
583
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Posted - 2015.11.20 13:19:24 -
[8] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Mr Mieyli wrote:
What's wrong about me saying the stats say "any given day"? It is a big assumption to say that the same 1.5% of players run incursions each day. CCP even highlight it in the dev blog in italics.
Does it matter who the 1.5% is? Its that this small segment of players is earning a massive sum of isk that is the issue here. batlec1 is correct, this time 
What a 1.5% tells me, considering that I know for a fact fleets are running incursions 24/7, is that there is a very real cap on the number of people who can run incursions. That means that yes, while the income from incursions is insane on a per player basis, it does not have even remotely the player capacity that Lv4 missions (LP regulated) or Nullsec ratting (Sov/Blue regulated) has.
In fact I would suggest that if the game had a larger population incursions would in fact not be a problem at all. For one there would be a LOT more competition in incursion sites and would decrease the isk per player. The total faucet form incursions wouldn't change a lot but the number of people running them would increase, and theoretically the faucet from missions/null would increase by a lot more in comparison.
Unfortunately that's not the Eve we're playing right now.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
583
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Posted - 2015.11.20 13:22:39 -
[9] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:The rich 1.5% don't want to hear it. It's why every time from now on that I go to a CCp hosted event, i'm going to occupy the ears of the nearest DEV so that this imbalance is tackled lol. Occupy Wall Street CCP Dev? 
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
583
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Posted - 2015.11.20 13:31:59 -
[10] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:baltec1 wrote:Mr Mieyli wrote:
What's wrong about me saying the stats say "any given day"? It is a big assumption to say that the same 1.5% of players run incursions each day. CCP even highlight it in the dev blog in italics.
Does it matter who the 1.5% is? Its that this small segment of players is earning a massive sum of isk that is the issue here. batlec1 is correct, this time  What a 1.5% tells me, considering that I know for a fact fleets are running incursions 24/7, is that there is a very real cap on the number of people who can run incursions. That means that yes, while the income from incursions is insane on a per player basis, it does not have even remotely the player capacity that Lv4 missions (LP regulated) or Nullsec ratting (Sov/Blue regulated) has. In fact I would suggest that if the game had a larger population incursions would in fact not be a problem at all. For one there would be a LOT more competition in incursion sites and would decrease the isk per player. The total faucet form incursions wouldn't change a lot but the number of people running them would increase, and theoretically the faucet from missions/null would increase by a lot more in comparison. Unfortunately that's not the Eve we're playing right now. None of that addresses the problem. It has nothing to do with the overall economy. It has to do with individual inccentives. Last week I decided to try something I hadn't before. I have 2 Machariels in null, one for anomalies and one for esclations. I decided to dual box both in anomalies. You know the result of that? About 150 million isk per hour total. 2 pirate battleships. Null sec. 150 million isk per hour (75 per toon/ship), while risking that. Watching local like a hawk, being in a pve defense fleet, and having intel channel open. In high sec I run ONE MACHARIEL in an incursion and make the same isk. The same 150 mil per hour (isk plus CONCORD LP) without even having to glance at local. FC did the commanding, Anchor did the driving. I shot NPCs and watched John Wick. Than add in my SOE mission running FOF missile RNI and I get closer to 200-220 mil per hour total. With less effort and risk than what i have to do in null. How in the blazes can anyone with any sense not see that's broken? I shouldn't have been able to do that in the most protected space in the game, it toally crushes the risk/reward scheme EVE is supposed to have, and the destortions it creates contributes to all manner of bad things, from devalued null to maybe even higher than nessacary PLEX prices (that 8 trillion isk per month from incursions has to go somewhere). My point was if you double the number of people running incursion, would you still get the same isk/h? Would you double the size of the isk faucet?
No. But again that's not the eve we're playing now. Incursions are sound but designed for a bigger pop.
Maybe they should just limit incusions to one in HS at any one time? what do you think of that suggestion?
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
583
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Posted - 2015.11.20 13:38:22 -
[11] - Quote
See above edit pls.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
583
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Posted - 2015.11.20 13:46:48 -
[12] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:See above edit pls. Removing content is not something I like to see happen. Toning down the isk you can earn from them is a better option in my book. I'm not advocating removing incursions completely, just reducing the number of sites (justified by introducing Drifter incursions). Yes people can still make 'easier' isk in incursions but there would (theoretically) be increased competition. With competition comes drama, with drama comes content and the silliness of MOM sniping.
Good times to be had by all. If even that doesn't work then sure tone down income untill everyone moves on to Lv4 missions. Then tone that down till everyone moves on to... wait nothing left in HS, ah well STO has plenty of content.
I think having players self regulate (competition for sites for example) is better than CCP regulating, isn't that more in the spirit with Eve?
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
583
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Posted - 2015.11.20 13:57:21 -
[13] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Anize Oramara wrote: I think having players self regulate (competition for sites for example) is better than CCP regulating, isn't that more in the spirit with Eve?
Big no on that one. We have forced CCP to make changes several times because players simply cannot be trusted to not abuse a game imbalance. Self regulate is the wrong term I guess, that suggests people agreeing not to abuse a mechanic. The idea is scarcity of resources forcing competition and conflict is what I was going for.
Isn't that what Null USED to be based around and what null wars used to be fought over? I ask because this was before my time. If it's not that then why was there conflict back in the day?
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
583
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Posted - 2015.11.20 15:18:23 -
[14] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:baltec1 wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:See above edit pls. Removing content is not something I like to see happen. Toning down the isk you can earn from them is a better option in my book. I don't run incursions atm, but if a certain big mouth keeps running her choppers off about making 200+ mill an hour blitzing hi-sec lev 4 missions then it may be only a matter of time before CCP decides to nerf Hi-Sec lev 4 missions. In case this happens I'd like to know that there is another casual (gameplay wise) alternative to making isk without playing with nullbears. Rather than asking for Hi-Sec incursions income nerf, wouldn't it better to request CCP to add Drifter null sec incursions that allows Caps & Supers and that pays out much more than hi-sec incursions? If little old me makes a big enough impact for CCP to nerf Lv4s then I can quit eve a happy, happy person.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
583
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Posted - 2015.11.20 18:34:56 -
[15] - Quote
13.5mill per member, per site. so lets be conservative and say 3 sites an hour. So that's 13.5 * 3 * 40. 1.62 bill per hour extra.
How much is a large pos and stront and fuel?
Also lol nullseccers complaining about logistics of setting up a single pos. What R Cynos.
It is amusing the arguments coming out.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
584
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Posted - 2015.11.20 19:58:30 -
[16] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:13.5mill per member, per site. so lets be conservative and say 3 sites an hour. So that's 13.5 * 3 * 40. 1.62 bill per hour extra.
How much is a large pos and stront and fuel?
Also lol nullseccers complaining about logistics of setting up a single pos. What R Cynos.
It is amusing the arguments coming out. cant light cynos in incursion systems, dont even know if you can setup pos's in incursion systems so thats a silly comment you still have the risk of being hellcamped on out gates by a load of battleships and supers, yeah cynos, all you need is a cyno on each out gate to ruin a nullsec incursion runners day, cant do that in highsec though huh. everyone has intel chanels as soon as someone notices a fleet of 40 faction battleships doing an incursion you will be having a bad day. Sounds like content to me.
Oh wait, don't want content in null, my bad.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
584
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Posted - 2015.11.20 20:05:13 -
[17] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Anize Oramara wrote: Sounds like content to me.
Oh wait, don't want content in null, my bad.
There is content and then there is sending the lambs to the slaughter. It's come to this, the great nullsec Alliances has come down to this.
CCP is the least of this game's problems.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
584
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Posted - 2015.11.20 20:12:51 -
[18] - Quote
Then why isn't CfC doing it? One of the single most lucrative activities in eve is being left unused because the biggest, meanest, 'most bestest' Alliance in the game with thousands of members and ships and hundreds of supers 'might get shot at'.
What a colossal joke.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
584
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Posted - 2015.11.20 20:43:02 -
[19] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:Then why isn't CfC doing it? One of the single most lucrative activities in eve is being left unused because the biggest, meanest, 'most bestest' Alliance in the game with thousands of members and ships and hundreds of supers 'might get shot at'.
What a colossal joke. CfC/imp[erium does run incursions in their own space, I know because my Allainces has found wormholes to them and tried to go after them sometimes. Are you really letting anti-Goon prejudice affect your ability to reason? i've got bees all up in my killboard and I don't even do that. I didn't peg you for one who practices denialism. Character assassination, how original 
Regardless, what I said applies to all nullsec alliances, there's no focus on one specific alliance but it is telling that the biggest ones wont even bother. It's there for the taking but you know, being risk averse is not something exclusive to HS players it seems. It's not null that's dead, it's the people that live there. The stories I've heard of Nullsec Alliances back in the day and what I see in game and on the forums now are so different it's no wonder. Would rather whine to CCP day and night than lift a finger to affect change themselves.
Whatever, not even worth the time I'm spending to write this.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
616
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Posted - 2015.11.27 08:06:07 -
[20] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:As for other people's opinions, I respect other people's opinions, when they are right and backed up by evidence. When they are a bunch of nonsense and self serving untruths, I also give them the respect they deserve.
None. I can confirm that both of these assertions are a lie. Providing evidence gets ignored or you get bombarded with personal insults, even when proven to be right. It's counter productive to coming to a solution.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.03
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
617
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Posted - 2015.11.27 15:22:35 -
[21] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Aquilan Aideron wrote:Lan Wang wrote:not just talking about nullsec here we are talking about null and low and the risks compared to just doing it in highsec Yes, but why did they put a high profit gig like incursions under the protection of Concord? Wouldnt you think there is a purpose to that decision? They've said as much in the past, there was none. People were intended to defeat the Sansha in order to get rid of the NPCs who might attack them, their being farmed is wholly unintentional. They could probably start by just "fixing" this by making the incursion close after 2 hours of full blue bar. It still leaves time to form up the bigger fleet to complete it but no more 3 days of farming. From there, who knows exactly how it would change how they are run. They could potentially spawn faster after a kill if CCP think they should always be available but at least a larger portion of the sites would be ran with some red bar which technically are at least a little bit harder... It also adds more time spent travelling to the equation. Going from 72 hours to 2 hours seems a bit extreme don't you think? I mean I don't agree with the farming concept but you're talking about reducing it to less than 3%. DO you think that's a good number?
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.03
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